Curse

Mechz · Mar 21, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

"Half-brother" seems to be taken a bit too literally. Perhaps the exact primordial process that created Balthazar was set in motion a second time; but was corrupted, resulting in a creature who only shares so much of Balthazar's composition.

Fangclaw · Mar 23, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

The sceptor controls the dead,.

If your refering to Sanctum Cay, he only used the circumstance of us giving him the scepter as an excuse to summon his pawns without blowing his cover...

Although, guessing he was the one behind it all wasnt very hard... Had more fun with the EotN plot, even Factions was better.

Gmr Leon · Mar 23, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I promise to read this thread after I get this out, as it's bugging me. Free Runner does know his stuff, he just doesn't have it in the right places.

Lord Odran opened gates that led to various locations in the Mists, that is true. Also, to my above diagram, as it isn't very clear, it's within the Mists and you can access the Rift from it as Odran did, but one can also enter Tyria through the Rift.

Also, it's speculation to claim the Mursaat are not of Tyrian origin, it's fact that the Seers aren't, though.

As to Livia taking the Scepter of Orr, that's definitely up to speculation. From Ogden's Benediction it actually looks like she hesitates and doesn't take it. Remember the line that plays when it gets to that point:

"New sacrifices will be made."

Konig Des Todes · Mar 23, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangclaw

If your refering to Sanctum Cay, he only used the circumstance of us giving him the scepter as an excuse to summon his pawns without blowing his cover...

Although, guessing he was the one behind it all wasnt very hard... Had more fun with the EotN plot, even Factions was better.

Actually, that wasn't what I was referring too. I was referring to Livia and others saying that with that staff, you can control the dead. Forgot where it was said, I'll have to look it up again.

As for your diagram GmrLeon, I would say that seems very accurate, but I would remove the line that connects tyria to the mist, because, unless I remember wrong, those from Tyria has to travel through the rift in order to get to the mists. I may be wrong though.

And may I ask for your source when you say the Seers are not from tyria? Also, where did the "Mursaat did not come from tyria" come from? They lived in the Tarnished Coast.

Free Runner · Mar 23, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

I was not really giving a direct layout. Just small corrections on where things were located eg Hall of Heroes being within the center of The Rift. But indeed that would be the general layout of The Rift. If the Great Forge does exist i would place that possibly under the Hall of Heroes.

Gmr Leon · Mar 24, 2008, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Actually, that wasn't what I was referring too. I was referring to Livia and others saying that with that staff, you can control the dead. Forgot where it was said, I'll have to look it up again.

As for your diagram GmrLeon, I would say that seems very accurate, but I would remove the line that connects tyria to the mist, because, unless I remember wrong, those from Tyria has to travel through the rift in order to get to the mists. I may be wrong though.

And may I ask for your source when you say the Seers are not from tyria? Also, where did the "Mursaat did not come from tyria" come from? They lived in the Tarnished Coast.

I admit, it's rather vague as to whether the Seers are Tyrian or not. I think it was associated with a theory, I'll have to look around. This quote may be what brought it up though.

"I have traveled far and waited many long years to help you fulfill the Flameseeker Prophecies. What matters is that I am here to help you."-The Seer

Oh and about my diagram, that was more of a representation that Tyria itself lies within the Mists as everything does.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 24, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

I admit, it's rather vague as to whether the Seers are Tyrian or not. I think it was associated with a theory, I'll have to look around. This quote may be what brought it up though.

"I have traveled far and waited many long years to help you fulfill the Flameseeker Prophecies. What matters is that I am here to help you."-The Seer

Oh and about my diagram, that was more of a representation that Tyria itself lies within the Mists as everything does.

That can simply mean the Seer came from somewhere not in the southern shiverpeaks, not really non-Tyria, especially if you mean Tyria as a planet *like it should be in your diagram which is also what I was meaning*. Things like Tyria can get confusing some times, just wanna make sure there is no miscommunication on which Tyria you mean.

Tzu · Apr 18, 2008, 09:40 AM // 09:40

this is a very good thread, the Mists should be given more attention.

Actually, I hope GW2 doesn't make too much out of the Mists. Not every character should be allowed to travel through it, or at all access it. It kills the mystery of it.

As I see it, the Mists is like another dimension on top/within/about/through ours, which should not be acessed by fleshy beings. Perhaps, with strong magic, a character could pass through it to the Rift, but never explore the actual Mists itself. It should be a place only accessible by souls bereft of their bodies, drifting off to a plane where they don't need to take a physical form to Be.
It doesn't matter what you did in your past life, every soul goes to the Mists. Probably because of the strange, unworldly and surely powerful magics that the Mists contain/is, many have tried to exploit this pool of power by means of strong magics from their own world.
Whether or not they succeeded is, to an extent, up for discussion.
I don't think we should link the Mists to any mythology or ideas used in other games, 'cus the Mists of Guild Wars is an idea of it's own and should not be bound by the limits of others'.

Arghore · Jun 30, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Possible Spoiler, if you want to keep the mists a mystery to you, dont read this post (but then you can always disagree or have a different opinion

)

I do NOT know everything and have not seen everything there is to see in Tyria, i have hardly played in HA, but have years of experience fighting in RA, where i have encountered the Mists numurous times ..

To my believes the Mists is what was yesterday and what will be tomorrow, as what we remember gets clouded and any visions for 'tomorrow' are usually shrowded in mists..
Tyria (or Present) is where 'we' are.. the Mist have somewhat of a resemblance with the human concept of time, though the mist seems to be more then that..

We know the dead go to the mists as they are no longer (in the) present, only magic (inspired by the gods) can bring a creature from the mists back into the present.
If a creature can not be resurrected, this must be caused by a Rift/Fissure which prevents them from returning. If this is the Rift or the FoW, i do not know, it could well be a Rift we (/I) do not know of. Since 'the Rift' is said to be related to the HoH and deaths and resurrections are so commen there (it might actually be those deaths and ressurections that caused 'the rift'), it is more likely to be the FoW or an unknow rift we/I do not know of.

As i can currently only make a grafic as a timeline:

??Mists?? --- \rift or fissure/ --- Mists (of past/has been) --- Tyria (current/present)--- \Rift or Fissure/ ---- Mists (of Future/what wil be ---- ??Mists??

I have left out some (mostlikely numurous) places that are hard to place in this time line format. But because they explain (/confirm?) this aspect of the mist i have to mention a couple of them. First would be the UW:

The underworld is where the dead go once they are not resurrected, this realm seems to excist 'outside of time' somehow (for human concepts), and is basically the place spirits rest (or if they have unfinished business, 'Unrest'). As all creatures goto the UW when their time comes (good/bad/nutral) we see those creatures in the UW:

- the guarding spirits are there to safeguard creatures from the RoT entering Tyria, through the UW, and safe-guard the resting spirits;
- the Unresting Spirits hope for some-one to deal with their unfinished business.
- The obvious bad creatures either came from Tyria and are 'on their way' to RoT, or come from RoT and try to enter Tyria through the UW. (Perhaps these creatures pass on information/orders from one side to the other? and are/is a way for Shiro or some even worse creature(?) to have influence on Tyria)
- Those that enter the UW see Nutral creatures as 'bad' creatures because they did not aid in the fight and if one is not your ally, then mostlikely it is your enemy. And/or in my believes can be viewed as the dead (nutral) creatures you fight in Tyria.

There is (to my knowledge) only one 'living' creature in the UW, namely the black widow spider, whom must have either traveled there being stuck on someones armor or was attracted by the light of a shrine in hopes of capturing a meal and got sucked into the UW and learned to survive there; then again it could also be this spider is actually an Undead creature which can survive in tyria once you capture it ...

The other place that subscribes to a 'time' aspect of the mist, is the Pre-searing area, this is where new hero's are 'born' and seems to be a place in the past, once you leave it, and since you cant go back there; This means a rift or fissure (caused by the searing) is in place there also.

ante-mention: I think i went to FoW only one time, and since it is a Fissure ill be spending time there to explore it more, seeing if i can find things that confirm my theory or explain more what sort of Fissure it is...

As access to the UW and FoW are placed in the Temple of Ages, this to me is a further hint that makes me believe im on the right track with the timeline aspect of the mists, though i sincerly doubt the mists are as 'simple' as the concept of time. Especially if you concidder all the other realms that excist.

Hmmm, *flash of inspiration*, perhaps what is throwing us off is that different creatures (races) have different names for the same places, which makes it more confusing for us to understand?

Konig Des Todes · Jun 30, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Uhm. Before you continue with these theories. I think you should read the Prophecies Manuscripts which defines the mists as a place. So to speak, it is similar to that of outer-space to us. That is, the space between realms and worlds. And also the origin of life.

To quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Underworld

The Rift

Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe – the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place.

In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things.

Hall of Heroes

In the center of the Rift, deep inside the Mists, stands the imposing walled fortress known across the multiverse as the Hall of Heroes. This structure is the pinnacle of the afterlife. When a hero dies, his spirit goes to one of two places: either it is buried with the deceased body, forever trapped inside the rotting flesh and rancid bones of the corpse, or it is released into the Rift. This latter honor goes to only those few whose deeds in life were legendary enough to be known across multiple worlds, and fewer still earn a place among the souls ensconced inside the Hall itself.

For a long while, the Rift and the Hall of Heroes were accessible only by those who had passed from the mortal world into the immaterial. It was the Land of the Dead, an exclusive club whose membership cost the blood of one’s own life. But within the last century all that has changed.

Arghore · Jul 02, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Uhm. Before you continue with these theories. I think you should read the Prophecies Manuscripts which defines the mists as a place. So to speak, it is similar to that of outer-space to us. That is, the space between realms and worlds. And also the origin of life.

To quote: They are what binds the universe together, past present, and future.

Doesnt this subscribe to my proposed time line aspect?

And as far as you say it is being defined as a place, didnt anything that happen yesterday on tyria, although now part of the past and thus in the mists (in my views) , take part in/on a place, namely on tyria... thought it could well be the mists are also an actual place, as i said, i encountered the mists in pve/RA mainly, and only stayed there for short periods of time, either being ressed by a player or by a shrine. Asfar as the place i went, face down on the ground

, but i doubt this is the place the Manuscripts speak about

Tobad search is out else you could have pointed me to the manuscripts, but i take it you mean the archives as a whole, which im slowly wrestling through

,

There is though one thing i dislike about manuscripts and old writings, they are usually based on knowledge/understanding from the past and written in such a way that they (in most cases) leave out room for new interpretations or viewing points.. (this has been valid for Manuscripts here on earth, so mostlikely also to some extend for tyria) ...not to mention that the writers might have had their own 'agenda' when writing these documents, not necessarily writing the truth, be it to either protect the truth or to mislead people from the stray path...

Konig Des Todes · Jul 03, 2009, 05:35 AM // 05:35

The fifth post of the Archives is what you want for that section. Or just go into the Regions section of the Prophecies manual/manuscripts.

As for me quoting, it was because of this: "as i said, i encountered the mists in pve/RA mainly, and only stayed there for short periods of time, either being ressed by a player or by a shrine. Asfar as the place i went, face down on the ground , but i doubt this is the place the Manuscripts speak about" though that is in your most recent post.

How do you know you've "encountered" in places like RA? Because you are rezed? But that is not the Mists - on a technical term. The Mists are out of this world, some view it as an essence, others as an equivalent to outer space. It is not the force which resurrects players. That would be more of preservation magic - similar to that of a monk's resurrection (in fact, in pre-searing, you can see evidence that the resurrection shrines there are maintained by monks, and one even says she resurrects "adventurers" *aka the players*).

Also, I understand that line you picked out (along with the next) as saying that it is the origin of all things. The origin of things have come and gone (past), the origin of things that exist now (present), and the origin of the things that is not yet made (future).

Besides your long - and honestly, confusing - theory on the previous page is just highly far fetched to me. To go back to it which I didn't before because I thought that quotation would be sufficient enough to say that the Mists is more of a place than some time-loop - but clearly that clearly wasn't - I will take out individual aspects...

Quote:

We know the dead go to the mists as they are no longer (in the) present, only magic (inspired by the gods) can bring a creature from the mists back into the present.

This is actually incorrect. Aside from Shiro who used a powerful ritual and basically exchanged his life for another, there was no soul brought back from the Rift - which is where souls go, not the Mists. That is, a soul brought back to a living being - no, not even the undead are made from souls from the Rift, nor are Shiro'ken. The only cases of spirits coming back from the Rift would be the Envoys, which only come back living in Shiro's case (which is special as he is not going from the Rift to living, but from Tyria to living), and in the case of Ritualists - all of which the spirits only return for a single time.

Quote:

If a creature can not be resurrected, this must be caused by a Rift/Fissure which prevents them from returning. If this is the Rift or the FoW, i do not know, it could well be a Rift we (/I) do not know of. Since 'the Rift' is said to be related to the HoH and deaths and resurrections are so commen there (it might actually be those deaths and ressurections that caused 'the rift'), it is more likely to be the FoW or an unknow rift we/I do not know of.

This sounds like utter BS. No offense. How could a creature not being able to be resurrected cause a rift or fissure? And the Rift and the Fissure of Woe are both places - the kind of rift of fissure there would be more like a tear in the fabric of time. At least, I would think. But still... rather absurd.

Quote:

The underworld is where the dead go once they are not resurrected, this realm seems to excist 'outside of time' somehow (for human concepts), and is basically the place spirits rest (or if they have unfinished business, 'Unrest'). As all creatures goto the UW when their time comes (good/bad/nutral) we see those creatures in the UW:

Spirits with unfinished business do not move onto the Underworld, for starters. Also, the Underworld is the "starting place" and "neutral zone" for spirits - it would seem. The spirits would, after being judged by Grenth, go to their destined locations. Except on special occasions like Ural where an avatar of a god takes the soul to that god's realm or like Shiro where the Envoys have the soul skip Grenth and go straight to their destiny (for him, the Realm of Torment).

Another thing to go off of your theory, is that in the Underworld (which resides in the Rift), we see spirits of the present thus proving that being unresurrectable does not cause them to go into the future.

Quote:

- the guarding spirits are there to safeguard creatures from the RoT entering Tyria, through the UW, and safe-guard the resting spirits;
- the Unresting Spirits hope for some-one to deal with their unfinished business.
- The obvious bad creatures either came from Tyria and are 'on their way' to RoT, or come from RoT and try to enter Tyria through the UW. (Perhaps these creatures pass on information/orders from one side to the other? and are/is a way for Shiro or some even worse creature(?) to have influence on Tyria)
- Those that enter the UW see Nutral creatures as 'bad' creatures because they did not aid in the fight and if one is not your ally, then mostlikely it is your enemy. And/or in my believes can be viewed as the dead (nutral) creatures you fight in Tyria.

No offense, but you really need to delve into the facts of lore first. Most of this stuff can be countered by dialogue in the Underworld. Do you even know about Dhuum and his attack on Grenth in the Underworld? That is where most of those monsters are coming from...

I do think, that before responding to my post, that you should use wiki to view Underworld and Fissure of Woe dialogue. And read the manual - especially the portions relating to the Mists and Rift, and Lord Odran. Your theory really feels like you're missing so much known lore.

Quote:

There is (to my knowledge) only one 'living' creature in the UW, namely the black widow spider, whom must have either traveled there being stuck on someones armor or was attracted by the light of a shrine in hopes of capturing a meal and got sucked into the UW and learned to survive there; then again it could also be this spider is actually an Undead creature which can survive in tyria once you capture it ...

The Underworld, being in the Rift, would be able to sustain living life even created there. Other locations within the Rift - the Realm of Torment and Fissure of Woe for example. Even the Underworld itself have living creatures. Aatxes, Dryders, Coldfires. They are all living technically, and are not spirits. It is possible for flesh and blood creatures to be in the Rift since birth - it would appear. This is the case for the Forgotten in the Realm of Torment as well - though if they were born in the Rift, is unknown.

Quote:

The other place that subscribes to a 'time' aspect of the mist, is the Pre-searing area, this is where new hero's are 'born' and seems to be a place in the past, once you leave it, and since you cant go back there; This means a rift or fissure (caused by the searing) is in place there also.

uhh.....
...
...
...
...
...
...
...what?

Two years take place, people cannot time travel, you know... So far, at least.

Quote:

As access to the UW and FoW are placed in the Temple of Ages, this to me is a further hint that makes me believe im on the right track with the timeline aspect of the mists, though i sincerly doubt the mists are as 'simple' as the concept of time. Especially if you concidder all the other realms that excist.

You also access the Underworld and Fissure of Woe in the Zin Ku Corridor and the Chantry of Secrets. You go to the Realm of Torment via the Chantry of Secrets and the portal in the Mouth of Torment. You go to the Hall of Heroes from Tombs of the Primeval Kings and Heroes' Ascent (both via Odran's Portals). You can also access the Underworld from Lonar's Pass.

The name for Temple of the Ages is more for the fact that it has stood through the ages, implied via the outpost description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temple of the Ages description

From time immemorial the Temple of the Ages has stood in this protected location just inland of the Divinity Coast. The elements have taken their toll on the temple, and even the statues of the gods are now little more than piles of rubble. Still, this sacred place holds a magic that attracts the bold and the adventurous. Some say that the stones themselves will rise up one day and rebuild the temple, and on that day, the gods will once again turn their gaze upon Kryta.

Yup, I think I covered everything.

Gmr Leon · Jul 03, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

How do you know you've "encountered" in places like RA? Because you are rezed? (...) It is not the force which resurrects players.

I think he thinks he has encountered the Mists simply by dying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

And the Rift and the Fissure of Woe are both places - the kind of rift of fissure there would be more like a tear in the fabric of time. At least, I would think. But still... rather absurd.

Actually, I think that may be what he was trying to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Spirits with unfinished business do not move onto the Underworld, for starters.

Technically, you could say that some do, sort of. Those who died unexpectedly are still taken there. Prime examples being those who died in the Searing that we see at the beginning of the Underworld.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Two years take place, people cannot time travel, you know... So far, at least.

I think his logic may be that we cannot return there through the Rift due to the mass amount of death that, by his logic, would have created a rift in time, preventing travel there.

Oh, and also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

(both via Odran's Portals)

Still pending confirmation. (We should get some sort of code for things like this, or a tag, like spoilers, except, "Still pending confirmation." It would amuse me greatly, personally.)

Konig Des Todes · Jul 03, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Actually, I think that may be what he was trying to say.

The later, yes. However, he was saying that the Rift and the Fissure of Woe were the later. Which is what I was calling " absurd."

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Technically, you could say that some do, sort of. Those who died unexpectedly are still taken there. Prime examples being those who died in the Searing that we see at the beginning of the Underworld.

There are many more who died even more suddenly (suspected in quickness) and did not move on - the Orrian undead. Only a handful moved on, so I'd say it is more of the Envoys being able to get to just a handful of souls in the speed of the deaths instead of those souls also having unfinished business. Remember unexpected deaths does not always mean the soul has unfinished business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

I think his logic may be that we cannot return there through the Rift due to the mass amount of death that, by his logic, would have created a rift in time, preventing travel there.

... how would we be able to get to Pre-searing via the Rift? Like I said, there is no lore evidence of time-travel. The only "support" would be redoing missions, but that is more of game mechanics than lore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Still pending confirmation. (We should get some sort of code for things like this, or a tag, like spoilers, except, "Still pending confirmation." It would amuse me greatly, personally.)

tags would be nice...

And Leon, I expected more on this topic out of you. You have an unique interest in magic and the Mists. I'm ashamed!

Gmr Leon · Jul 03, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

I have an entire thread on the matter that would appear to be ignored..Unless, it's one of my many threads that I haven't also posted here..I'll have to look into it. Aside from that, you expect more out of me in a response to a fairly incoherent hypothesis? It would be like breaking a rabbit's neck, you understand why and how you're doing it, but you don't understand what you're achieving by it.

draxynnic · Jul 05, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

...or like Shiro where the Envoys have the soul skip Grenth and go straight to their destiny (for him, the Realm of Torment).

Possibly because he was already essentially 'pre-judged'. Envoyhood is presented as a kind of suspended sentence, from which state Shiro went and misbehaved again - it's possible he got landed in the RoT purely from his original sentence becoming no longer suspended, and the same suspended sentence was hanging over all the other Envoys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Still pending confirmation. (We should get some sort of code for things like this, or a tag, like spoilers, except, "Still pending confirmation." It would amuse me greatly, personally.)

Might involve less usage of tags to have a tag for things that are confirmed.

Arghore · Jul 12, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

GMRLeon seems to understand my writing better then Konig

; and Konig is right that i should read up on some more lore as i seem to assume things that are allready discribed by others, tnx for pointing me in the right directions

To comment on the comments:
- I do view my encounters with the mist to occur by the act of dieing, the res gets me back outof the mists... IRL one would die, go trough the mists, get judged, and go to the underworld (be it heaven or hell or w/e..), if RL would have ressurections one would have to be ressurected b4 one is 'judged' and makes the passage to the underworld. The fact that we (as players) can enter the underworld is a privelidge granted by Grenth..

- I view the continuous deaths and ressurections in the HoH to cause a sort of tear in the fabric of time (mainly the ressurections, as they counter a timewise 'final aspect' of life, being.. dieing), thus causing a Rift, hence the (mis)understanding that the HoH is in the center of the Rift.. where it is actually the Rift that is in the center of the HoH; also, the rift also gives acces to the underworld, which if you understand how/what i mean, then makes perfect sence...

- I said the pre-searing is a 'place in time' to which we cannot return, because something is blocking our way back. An unknown rift or fissure so to speak...

@GMRLeon, if you did write a whole thread on this, please include a link in this thread, so people can read it in relation to this thread..

@Konig, your explinations helped me alot allready, though you seemed to have misunderstood my writing at some points; i hope that by me stirring things up and having you explain basics to me, this will help you to get a better understanding of the subject at hand (this is what helps me out IRL alot, by explaining things to others i seem to get a simplified understanding of the subject, which then helps me to further/deepen my understanding of the subject)

And yes, killing this bunny is rather useless at this point, i will read up some more and do some more research ingame, and report back here; given i find more to either prove or disprove my theories;

Gmr Leon · Jul 12, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

- I view the continuous deaths and ressurections in the HoH to cause a sort of tear in the fabric of time (mainly the ressurections, as they counter a timewise 'final aspect' of life, being.. dieing), thus causing a Rift, hence the (mis)understanding that the HoH is in the center of the Rift.. where it is actually the Rift that is in the center of the HoH; also, the rift also gives acces to the underworld, which if you understand how/what i mean, then makes perfect sence...

Technically, I see what you mean, but the continual usage of the term Rift is bound to throw others off. Well, that, or the continued capitalization of the term, which seems to indicate to others that you are meaning the location, rather than the other meaning of it.

Also, here is the thread that I mentioned.

draxynnic · Jul 13, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

To comment on the comments:
- I do view my encounters with the mist to occur by the act of dieing, the res gets me back outof the mists... IRL one would die, go trough the mists, get judged, and go to the underworld (be it heaven or hell or w/e..), if RL would have ressurections one would have to be ressurected b4 one is 'judged' and makes the passage to the underworld. The fact that we (as players) can enter the underworld is a privelidge granted by Grenth..

Alternatively, part of the reason some people can be raised and others can't could be because Grenth judges them as worthy of resurrection...

Konig Des Todes · Jul 13, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

- I do view my encounters with the mist to occur by the act of dieing, the res gets me back outof the mists... IRL one would die, go trough the mists, get judged, and go to the underworld (be it heaven or hell or w/e..), if RL would have ressurections one would have to be ressurected b4 one is 'judged' and makes the passage to the underworld. The fact that we (as players) can enter the underworld is a privelidge granted by Grenth..

You forget the role of the Envoys *hmm, that page needs some expansion* (and sometimes the Avatar of the Gods) who take souls/spirits/ghosts (whatever term you prefer) to the afterlife.

I would have to say that, to allow resurrection, unless a Ritualist (as they can bring spirits from the afterlife to do their bidding), one has to be resurrected before being taken to be judged. Not that in the beginning of the Underworld you see various spirits there, one of them has a quest, and explains that they cannot move on to be judged by Grenth due to the monsters. They still cannot be resurrected.

The act of resurrection is a very sketchy one (specifically the "why's" and "why not's" for if someone can or cannot be resurrected).

For my whole view on Spirits, feel free to look at this thread of mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

- I view the continuous deaths and ressurections in the HoH to cause a sort of tear in the fabric of time (mainly the ressurections, as they counter a timewise 'final aspect' of life, being.. dieing), thus causing a Rift, hence the (mis)understanding that the HoH is in the center of the Rift.. where it is actually the Rift that is in the center of the HoH; also, the rift also gives acces to the underworld, which if you understand how/what i mean, then makes perfect sence...

I suggest that, if you are so focused on using capitalized words, use Tear instead of Rift. :P Like before, you are forgotten the Envoys. At the very least. And it seems to me that, while you are making up your theory, you forget that nothing but the Hall of Heores resides in the Hall of Heroes (location-wise) and that the Hall of Heroes is in the afterlife, thus the dead would have "moved on to the afterlife" on the instance of death. Which thus causes another problem of the biggest confusion in Guild Wars Lore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

- I said the pre-searing is a 'place in time' to which we cannot return, because something is blocking our way back. An unknown rift or fissure so to speak...

But, except for the idea of game mechanics around missions and quests, there is no time traveling anyways. Thus, we naturally would be unable to travel back in time 2 years, lore wise. And game mechanic wise, we cannot return to pre-searing due to the fact that pre-searing was a tutorial.

In this theory, it would be best if you drop the argument of pre-searing all together, because it just doesn't fit.

Of what I've noticed, you have two grave problems. You fail to see the difference between game mechanics and lore (many have this issue), and you don't know the basics of the afterlife - you came in here solely struggling on the string that is observances in PvP and knowledge of just the words - not their meanings. It should be noted that PvP is possibly, except for the land itself (that is, what occurs in PvP) the most hostile area to lore. The only things that can accurately be discussed with using PvP as a focus point are - in my opinion - the locations and the Zaishen (both of which are also in PvE) and lastly, NPC dialogue.

Though, again, this is just in my opinion.